Wednesday, Jensen Huang — CEO of NVIDIA and avowed black leather jacket aficionado — sat down with Dwarkesh Patel to discuss, broadly, the future of AI and Nvidia’s place in the industry.

It was a cordial conversation until China came up. Should America sell chips to China? Patel asks.

Suffice to say, the two men did not agree.

The argument lasts ~40 minutes. It culminates in Huang saying, with gusto, “You’re not talking to somebody who woke up a loser,” a moment that was endlessly (rightfully) memed. Beyond that, the conversation was probably one of the best encapsulations of two competing philosophies in American foreign policy today.

It begins innocently. Patel namedrops Claude Mythos — Anthropic’s new model that, the company said last week, has identified “thousands of high-severity vulnerabilities” in “every major operating system, every browser,” and is too powerful to release publicly right now. Patel uses this as a lead-in to ask about chips.

“If Chinese companies [...] had access to the AI chips to train a model like Claude Mythos,” Patel asks, “is that a threat to American companies and American national security?”